Hardware Baseless Nintendo NX speculation thread

Saiyan Lusitano · May 5, 2016

gameboy said:
yea i heard the polaris 11 series is for laptops not pc so it wouldnt be TOO powerful or have heat issues. with cartridges i would think it would cost a lot more (nintendo is cheap) so i would also assume not as many 3rd party although load times would be faster. Nintendo is making its own OS to accompany this new generation of nintendo. They aiming to bring products like Apple's "i" products, different thing all in the same family.

Keep in mind the ps4 isnt that great a console when it comes to performance against decent pcs

But the games, are the actually going to be good or half-assed with Amiibo 'support'? That's what no one knows and there'll be loads of fanboys protecting it because.. because it's Nintendo. For the love of god I hope Ninty gets rid of that stupid top right analogue stick 'cause it made no sense back then and neither does it now.

When third parties are making better accessories than Nintendo it goes to show that Ninty's not doing a good job.

fiveighteen · May 5, 2016

Just some speculation about the return to cartridges:

http://m.ign.com/articles/2016/05/05/rumour-nintendo-nx-to-drop-discs-for-cartridges

article said:
In the past, Macronix sales performance usually peaked at third quarter, while declined at the fourth quarter. However, Wu Miin pointed out that because Nintendo has announced that the new platform will be launched in March next year, orders should be placed in advance. Therefore, the operating revenue of Macronix in the fourth quarter may be as good as the third quarter

article said:
Screen Critics also reports that Macronix recently began testing chips with a capacity of 32GB, and that these could be what Nintendo plans to purchase. Given that Xbox One and PS4 both use 50GB capacity Blu-Ray discs, and many games exceed even that, forcing extra features to be downloaded, there's some question as to whether Nintendo would adopt a format that reduced the need for installs, but still required it for many modern games.

There's also the patent that doesn't include a disc drive but does include a card slot:

gameboy · May 5, 2016

Damn, "buy your own HDD (supplementary computing device)",
most likely a xbox60 type thing where you HAVE to buy the Nintendo brand HDD thats actually a really cheap one but it can also have extras too

Notice how they left #8 in the diagram above out... whatever that is (paid subscription/portal to mynintendo?)

The largest nintendo game was SuperSmash i think at 18gb compressed while most big name ps4 games push 50+Gb
nintendo will probably go back to using wired controllers too lol

Yil · May 6, 2016

gameboy said:
yea i heard the polaris 11 series is for laptops not pc so it wouldnt be TOO powerful or have heat issues. with cartridges i would think it would cost a lot more (nintendo is cheap) so i would also assume not as many 3rd party although load times would be faster. Nintendo is making its own OS to accompany this new generation of nintendo. They aiming to bring products like Apple's "i" products, different thing all in the same family.

Keep in mind the ps4 isnt that great a console when it comes to performance against decent pcs

That said, putting a mobile gpu in handheld cartridge is of little diffculty or cost, which modular phhone has been successful for mojority of the part.
PS4k will be if it uses polaris 10. Polaris 11 laptop will threaten all consoles where consoles no longer have certain brand of exclusive. But to hell with keyboards and mouse, they are of little accessibility.

gameboy · May 6, 2016

yea but companies like to 'steal' the market, nintendo is trying to do it right now...

Anyhoo nintendo is toying with AR right now in the form of Pokemon GO, i expect those glasses to similarly do the same.

Saiyan Lusitano · May 6, 2016

Nintendo lost the territory to Sony PlayStation so that'll be hard to steal back.

Yil · May 6, 2016

Saiyan Lusitano said:
But the games, are the actually going to be good or half-assed with Amiibo 'support'? That's what no one knows and there'll be loads of fanboys protecting it because.. because it's Nintendo. For the love of god I hope Ninty gets rid of that stupid top right analogue stick 'cause it made no sense back then and neither does it now.

When third parties are making better accessories than Nintendo it goes to show that Ninty's not doing a good job.

More like the later. The is the end of the industry. We can now focus on more urgent matters.

gameboy · May 6, 2016

It wouldnt be hard to steal back the industry for N but nintendo is playing the LONG game. Slowly releasing sub-par consoles or restricting themselves to being environmental friendly or taking the cheap route. Nintendo doesnt gamble, no risk no reward

Frankly i would like to see them release SUPER LUIGI FACESITTER in contrast to SUPER MARIO FACESITTER

features:
longer nose than mario
but less girthier nose than mario
smoother less bushy velvet mustache (sold separate)
different voice acting
this nose squirms like a worm instead of vibration
(only comes in green)

Urbanshadow · May 6, 2016

Yil said:
I still have trouble imagining stuffing a gpu inside, getting away with extra cooling and good enough prices. Blueray is very slow for today's standard though. It's mostly up to amd/ manufacturer now.

There's an interesting rant of this in reddit with some good insights and mostly speculation. It could perfectly be the X in NX, being able to play the same cart on the handheld and the home system with a MH4U-esque way of providing specific textures and resolutions to each platform.

fiveighteen said:
Just some speculation about the return to cartridges:

So, you see. Set a normalkey into bootroom, then when bootrom runs, generate a key based on OTP and lock OTP. Send that to hardware scramble (with a cool, non-reverseable scrambler) and store the generated key somewhere safe. Then proceed to boot the firm.

So you use your system key to install the SECOND BASIC (>Basic) PROGRAM to hdd. But this time you need the cart to run it, as the FIRST BASIC PROGRAM is in the cart, is transfered to ram but ram is volatile. Inside it has a key, cart CID flash dependant, already scrambled (with a different scrambling function!).

It's actually clever. And fairly strong. Content key could be server side for eshop, as the content key is the "public" one. Of course the content is signed.

gameboy · May 6, 2016

Yea im not too sure about the cartridge idea because of production costs, who pays for the custom cartridges? how much does it cost for ''x''gb, sure nintendo games will always be small and not too texture detailed because of cartoonish character designs but didnt they want more 3rd party devs porting their games to NX? The best ps3/xb360 games pushed 60gb, most ps4/xb1 games average 60gb. Do those compaies want to pay extra for carts? Is it only gonna be digital with a "buy your own hdd" did these 3rd parties even know it was cartridge based?

Ive never seen any pc machine play cartridges either...

Urbanshadow · May 6, 2016

gameboy said:
Yea im not too sure about the cartridge idea because of production costs, who pays for the custom cartridges? how much does it cost for ''x''gb, sure nintendo games will always be small and not too texture detailed because of cartoonish character designs but didnt they want more 3rd party devs porting their games to NX? The best ps3/xb360 games pushed 60gb, most ps4/xb1 games average 60gb. Do those compaies want to pay extra for carts? Is it only gonna be digital with a "buy your own hdd" did these 3rd parties even know it was cartridge based?

Ive never seen any pc machine play cartridges either...

Yet you put SD cards on your PC every week. I'm failing to see how a modern cartridge is any different from an SD card if the cart is just the way to install to the system once and grab a key to run the content. The cart won't need to have special hardware besides a ROM. Nintendo can get ROM dirt cheap, for sure.

gameboy · May 6, 2016

the point was more on the cost than playing it, although it would be weird

Urbanshadow · May 6, 2016

gameboy said:
the point was more on the cost than playing it, although it would be weird

My point was also on cost. It's very costly to massively produce a cart with 2 or 3 different roms, a RTC and exclusive hardware to run a game. If the cart is just a container and all the logic is provided by the system any content could be flashed to a cart so you massively produce generic carts when needed and to the labeling, branding and flashing on demand.

You could massively order generic carts in bigger batches, and you could dinamically adjust how many carts of each game are produced. Just like sony does with blu-rays. So the debacle only goes in: "Will Nintendo be able get a better deal on ROM than on Blu-Ray?" depending on the answer they'll do. Getting rid of the blu-ray drive could get better hardware in its place, or a smaller system.

gameboy · May 6, 2016

yea its why i put a picture of the shield pro pages back. But itll most like have an empty slot much like the ps2fat did for your own hard drive

Urbanshadow · May 6, 2016

gameboy said:
yea its why i put a picture of the shield pro pages back. But itll most like have an empty slot much like the ps2fat did for your own hard drive

Personal opinion now, but I don't think so. It's Nintendo who we are speaking about. The only thing I could think about those lines was that pesky LAN cable extension for the Wii. I think it will just be sold with several hard drive sizes on them, to widen the target impact. It would allow for a "cheap" version of the system with idk... 200 GB or so. The games will probably range 16 to 64 GB in size, with possibility to expand, depending on the fileformat. It should allow to install a bunch of games, about 8 or so.

Then they just sell the system with bigger hdd (500 GB or even 1 TB) more expensive. This ties the hdd to be mechanical right now, so perhaphs a faster SSD "pro" version could appear when the SSD is ready to be used this way.

gameboy · May 6, 2016

i wrote that earlier but yea, ps3 did that and no one bought the cheaper ones, 8gb was trash for wiuu tho

gameboy · May 6, 2016

with the re-intro to cart with HUGE games the price jumps up to $70 again like in the 90s snes games
Maybe the NX is just a OS that binds all peripherals into one family like i said before
but its almost been 5yrs since the 3ds came out and i believe the handheld will come first

KingVamp · May 6, 2016

Would be neat if they could pull off cartridges. Hope it is true. Maybe the carts are a bit bigger than the 3ds ones, to make them cheaper.

That is, either a bit wider or thicker.

Saiyan Lusitano · May 6, 2016

Yil said:
More like the later. The is the end of the industry. We can now focus on more urgent matters.

Haha, not a chance. It's profitable market so companies will continue on releasing games as long as they can make money off of them.

Yil · May 6, 2016

gameboy said:
Yea im not too sure about the cartridge idea because of production costs, who pays for the custom cartridges? how much does it cost for ''x''gb, sure nintendo games will always be small and not too texture detailed because of cartoonish character designs but didnt they want more 3rd party devs porting their games to NX? The best ps3/xb360 games pushed 60gb, most ps4/xb1 games average 60gb. Do those compaies want to pay extra for carts? Is it only gonna be digital with a "buy your own hdd" did these 3rd parties even know it was cartridge based?

Ive never seen any pc machine play cartridges either...

You can get 128gb of storage on your phone. Beside without cgi it would not take that much space.

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Urbanshadow said:
Yet you put SD cards on your PC every week. I'm failing to see how a modern cartridge is any different from an SD card if the cart is just the way to install to the system once and grab a key to run the content. The cart won't need to have special hardware besides a ROM. Nintendo can get ROM dirt cheap, for sure.

It's faster and more reliable. eMMc is much better than MMc is every way. Yeah but do remember that snes cart often packs extra memory and that pokemon heart gold/ soul silver pack a comm of sorts.
And really good explaination on cartridges.

Urbanshadow said:
Personal opinion now, but I don't think so. It's Nintendo who we are speaking about. The only thing I could think about those lines was that pesky LAN cable extension for the Wii. I think it will just be sold with several hard drive sizes on them, to widen the target impact. It would allow for a "cheap" version of the system with idk... 200 GB or so. The games will probably range 16 to 64 GB in size, with possibility to expand, depending on the fileformat. It should allow to install a bunch of games, about 8 or so.

Then they just sell the system with bigger hdd (500 GB or even 1 TB) more expensive. This ties the hdd to be mechanical right now, so perhaphs a faster SSD "pro" version could appear when the SSD is ready to be used this way.

Pretty sure expand-ability has nothing to do with fileformat. Unless you are talking about comprised directories, which is irrelvent to cartridge size which is simply treated as directories.
Even eMMc are catching up with ssd, and ufs an equivalent of older nvme, which hdd would be pointless in certain regard.

Hardware Baseless Nintendo NX speculation thread

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