What gave Mega Drive / Genesis bad rep?

VinsCool · Jul 24, 2015

WiiCube_2013 said:
Suppose that's why I don't really appreciate Sega's tunes all that much as metal isn't my type of music. Synthesised BGMs? Love 'em!

It's not a matter you like metal or not, just saying that metal tunes sounds better in SEGA than the same tune on SNES. It has its metal guitar sound that nothing could reproduce

FAST6191 · Jul 24, 2015

Relevant as of the sound discussion
http://macgateway.com/featured-articles/sound-card-history/

As for the sound chip debate. We could talk specs and bore everybody to death. I think in the end though we can all agree that in the end it is a classic case of a bad workman blames his tools -- if you can not create something awesome sounding on either device then you have gone very wrong somewhere.

Also while we are on the Amiga let us see your SNES or megadrive pull this one off

Edit.
Actually you might as well have the efforts

RodrigoDavy · Jul 24, 2015

VinsCool said:
Metal/synth music sounds very good in a SEGA, while instrumental sounds better in SNES.
Although, some games has excellent sound, Aladdin and Sonic games have an excellent usage of synth.

I think Sonic sounds great but I don't think Aladdin sounds very good. I do think Virgin did a great work later with the Lion King soundtrack for the Mega Drive/Genesis.

I would say it's harder to get good results with the Mega Drive sound chip, but artists who knew how to use the hardware were able to get excellent results that's impossible to get in sample-based synthetizers. It's a shame that the Mega Drive wasn't good with percussion.

VinsCool · Jul 24, 2015

RodrigoDavy said:
I think Sonic sounds great but I don't think Aladdin sounds very good. I do think Virgin did a great work later with the Lion King soundtrack for the Mega Drive/Genesis.

I would say it's harder to get good results with the Mega Drive sound chip, but artists who knew how to use the hardware were able to get excellent results that's impossible to get in sample-based synthetizers. It's a shame that the Mega Drive wasn't good with percussion.

Percussions were very good in some games though

RodrigoDavy · Jul 24, 2015

FAST6191 said:
Relevant as of the sound discussion
http://macgateway.com/featured-articles/sound-card-history/

As for the sound chip debate. We could talk specs and bore everybody to death. I think in the end though we can all agree that in the end it is a classic case of a bad workman blames his tools -- if you can not create something awesome sounding on either device then you have gone very wrong somewhere.

Also while we are on the Amiga let us see your SNES or megadrive pull this one off

Edit.
Actually you might as well have the efforts

Amiga sounds a lot like the GBA. It must be because both use 8-bit samples. Seeing as how amiga can only do 4 PCM tracks, I would argue it must be difficult to make complex compositions for the Amiga, especially during gameplay when sound effects can eat one or two channels.

VinsCool said:
Percussions were very good in some games though

Were there any Mega Drive games that could do percussions like these: (It's a sincere question. Sorry if it seems I like to compare systems, it's just that 16-bit systems are one of my favorite topics)

The Real Jdbye · Jul 24, 2015

RodrigoDavy said:
Amiga sounds a lot like the GBA. It must be because both use 8-bit samples. Seeing as how amiga can only do 4 PCM tracks, I would argue it must be difficult to make complex compositions for the Amiga, especially during gameplay when sound effects can eat one or two channels.

Were there any Mega Drive games that could do percussions like these: (It's a sincere question. Sorry if it seems I like to compare systems, it's just that 16-bit systems are one of my favorite topics)

People have made tons of amazing C64/Amiga music, it takes more effort than newer consoles, but still sounds better than most music from the SNES/Genesis era.
It's hard to make amazing music for any of them though. They all have their limitations.

VinsCool · Jul 24, 2015

RodrigoDavy said:
Amiga sounds a lot like the GBA. It must be because both use 8-bit samples. Seeing as how amiga can only do 4 PCM tracks, I would argue it must be difficult to make complex compositions for the Amiga, especially during gameplay when sound effects can eat one or two channels.

Were there any Mega Drive games that could do percussions like these: (It's a sincere question. Sorry if it seems I like to compare systems, it's just that 16-bit systems are one of my favorite topics)

I'm not sure if "drums" were for the percussions samples from DKC, but here are some nice Genesis music pieces

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7DZ5Utuq58

RodrigoDavy · Jul 24, 2015

VinsCool said:
I'm not sure if "drums" were for the percussions samples from DKC, but here are some nice Genesis music pieces

Mega Turrican percussion kicks ass! :gun:

Hungry Friend · Jul 24, 2015

As far as multiplats went, devs often didn't take full advantage of the SNES' unique architecture, hence the slowdown in SF2 and the Mortal Kombat games among others while games like DKC1-3 had next to none despite using no enhancement chips and looking absolutely fantastic. Also Alpha 2 is FAR from an exact arcade port but I'm surprised just how much Capcom was able to squeeze in there, especially considering the PS1 port had a significant number of animation frames cut as well, although it's obviously a much better port.

The SNEs was a totally unique machine while the SG was more like the arcade HW at the time. Both had strengths and weaknesses, and the Genesis port of Virtua Racing that used the SVP chip, which actually pushed many more polygons at a higher framerate than the superFX 1-2 chips if I remember correctly was fucking impressive. I still think the SFX-2 chip worked better for enhancing 2d visuals like in Yoshi's Island though, and Capcom probably could've put out a fairly accurate Alpha 2 port if they had used that strategy although that's just a wild guess.

As far as sound goes, it's all down to taste. Genesis had sharper/crisper music but was bad at orchestral stuff while the SNES shined when it came to beautiful symphonic pieces. FFIV-VI, CT etc wouldn't be nearly as good without that crazy kutaragi sound chip. I like guys like him; they have balls and a vision.

FAST6191 said:
Relevant as of the sound discussion
http://macgateway.com/featured-articles/sound-card-history/

As for the sound chip debate. We could talk specs and bore everybody to death. I think in the end though we can all agree that in the end it is a classic case of a bad workman blames his tools -- if you can not create something awesome sounding on either device then you have gone very wrong somewhere.

Also while we are on the Amiga let us see your SNES or megadrive pull this one off

To be fair, the SNES version of Tales of Phantasia had a fully voiced theme song as well but due to cart limitations it was MUCH more heavily compressed than that. Also it sucks ass compared to that Cannon Fodder theme. Only 48-mbit cart I know of(8mb)

Geno Breaker · Aug 3, 2015

Ugh that projecting thread title.

The Genesis never had a bad rep besides with a few kiddies who started disliking it because AVGN said the add ons were crap. It was definitely more popular in the first couple of years of the "16 bit war". It was the cool kid's system. It almost always outsold the SNES in America every year. (And in some parts of Europe) It It just happened to have add ons released for it and fail. But it never had a bad reputation.

RodrigoDavy · Aug 3, 2015

Geno Breaker said:
It was definitely more popular in the first couple of years of the "16 bit war". It was the cool kid's system. It almost always outsold the SNES in America every year. (And in some parts of Europe)

I'm just using your post to talk of off. This is not a direct response to what you said specifically.

But wasn't that cool kid's system image the result of Sega's agressive market in North America? I mean the Mega Drive totally outsold the Snes here in Brazil, but I never found any brazilian Sega fan saying someone was not cool or childish for owning or liking the snes back then. In Brazil, the kind of agressive market Sega did in North America is forbidden by law, so I can only think this kind of attitude wasn't espontaneous but rather manipulative marketing.

Sure, the Mega Drive is a great system but I always see Sega fans kind of proud of this marketing Sega did, I think there should be more reflecting about this: wasn't this kind of marketing a little manipulative? Do you agree with the kind of marketing that make children make fun of each other based on the console they own? Do you think the use of this commercial is legitimate because it's clearly succesful in Sega's case?

Hungry Friend · Aug 3, 2015

As someone who was a kid during the 16-bit era, it was definitely the marketing that gave the Genesis the "cool kid's system" image. Sega always went for "edgy" type ads and Nintendo helped them out by censoring shit, especially when the first Mortal Kombat came out. The SNES port was censored to shit and played like trash while the SG version looked like ass but had all the blood/fatalities and played just like the arcade version. It was a major PR disaster for Nintendo which is why MK2-3 SNES were uncensored.

I think MK1 being censored is what gave Nintendo the whole "kiddie system" image in the first place, at least when it came to general public perception. MK was HUGE back in '93 so pretty much everyone even aware of gaming knew about it.(popular enough for politicians to bash it and blame it for everything bad in the world)

VinsCool · Aug 4, 2015

I'm enjoying my recent SEGA Genesis purchasse, and more games are coming soon from a seller from Ebay (Sonic games actually

)

Sakitoshi · Aug 5, 2015

Hungry Friend said:
To be fair, the SNES version of Tales of Phantasia had a fully voiced theme song as well but due to cart limitations it was MUCH more heavily compressed than that. Also it sucks ass compared to that Cannon Fodder theme. Only 48-mbit cart I know of(8mb)

you are a little wrong there. that game isn't that compressed(not with enhancement chips at least) as I can play it with no problems in a Super Everdrive. Both Star Ocean and Tales of Phantasia were stored in 48Mbits(6MBytes) carts and are the only ones to do so. but Star Ocean uses the S-DD1 chip for uncompression routines, the game extracted account for a whopping total of 96Mbits(12MBytes). there is an extracted version of the game circulating on the net that you can play on real hardware if you bother to make a cart or have a flashcart with enough memory to hold it(AFAIK only the SD2SNES has that much memory).

>Amiga vs SNES vs Genesis music.
bitch please, PC could do way better with a Sound Blaster.

full playlist here

ALL HAIL THE MASTER RACE.

Hungry Friend · Aug 5, 2015

I'm talking about the fully voiced theme song in Tales, not the entire game. If you hear it in-game in the SNES version of ToP you'll know what I mean when I say it's compressed to shit(and I don't like the song anyway). However, I didn't know SO was that massive uncompressed plus I've never even played Star Ocean despite having the fan translated ROM; it's a series I haven't really tried yet other than making sure it runs in 9x. ToP doesn't use enhancement chips afaik.

I've always been mostly a console gamer, especially being a fan of JRPGs. The SNES, PS1 and PS2 had tons of masterpieces and the Genesis had a few great ones as well.

sarkwalvein · Aug 5, 2015

Hungry Friend said:
I'm talking about the fully voiced theme song in Tales, not the entire game. If you hear it in-game in the SNES version of ToP you'll know what I mean when I say it's compressed to shit(and I don't like the song anyway). However, I didn't know SO was that massive uncompressed plus I've never even played Star Ocean despite having the fan translated ROM; it's a series I haven't really tried yet other than making sure it runs in 9x. ToP doesn't use enhancement chips afaik.

I've always been mostly a console gamer, especially being a fan of JRPGs. The SNES, PS1 and PS2 had tons of masterpieces and the Genesis had a few great ones as well.

But Yume wa owaranai is beautiful! (Not really, but don't trash my memories).
I think the song voices are sampled at 8KHz, so yes, it sounds as if Yukari Yoshida was singing through an old phone.
The version sung by Megumi Hayashibara on the PS1 is way better IMHO.

Hungry Friend · Aug 6, 2015

Yeah if I replay ToP, it'll definitely be the PS1 version that I also have a fan translated version of, and having played a little bit of it, the improvements are already incredibly obvious and I'm not just talking about the visual and sound quality.

Phantasy Star IV on the Genesis was really damn impressive for its time as well(and really fucking expensive) and much like Chrono Trigger(PSIV came first) it had allowed you to perform combo attacks with multiple characters simultaneously. The music, while excellent for the Genesis imo can't compare to the beautiful soundtracks of FF4-6, CT, SoM, Terranigma etc though. The Genesis could definitely pump out some awesome music but I just prefer the SNES' sound chip, although I'm definitely biased because of the fond memories I have of playing badass SNES games. Sound wise, it just had more tools to work with.

Flame · Aug 17, 2015

Yeah fuck the megadrive... That's why my mum thought it was trash and put it in the trash can....

*cries in fetus position in the corner*

WHY!!!?

*continues crying in fetus position in the corner*

What gave Mega Drive / Genesis bad rep?

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