why do people on forums hate jrpgs so much
- Thread starter thesupremegamer
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Ordinarily I would say something about it not being all that great. For this though I have to ask wasn't that a Canadian dev?
If you cut out the love interest thing (because that's not really a thing anymore, at least I haven't seen any games like that in ages), then yep we've got big jRPGs like Mass Effect, Neverwinter Nights, Dragon Age, etc all following that pattern!
Those darn japs!
Tbh there's not a lot different from western and eastern RPGs aside from core gameplay and obviously graphics. The story structure is pretty similar, western RPGs just like to throw in arbitrary choices that usually don't mean much in the grand scheme of things. Even if they do mean something, it's kind of like the goosebumps choose-your-own-adventure kind of thing where a story suffers heavily as a compromise for the "vastness" of the choices.
I usually hate characters in games like Dragon Age or even Neverwinter (which has a hell of a lot better writing), because 90% of the time you've got two people who hate eachother and bitch and whine about everything. Constantly fighting and being generally annoying as fuck. I much, much prefer the japanese style where your party actually GETS ALONG most of the time. Sure there might be conflict, but it's not after every fucking decision you make. I hate having to choose my party based on who will BEHAVE together, lol. Actually if I recall correctly...in Geneforge you can just kill your own teammates if it suits your fancy. God I love those games.
In the end I do play both. If a game is good, it's good. I don't care where it came from and I always laugh at the idiots who try their hardest to be bias towards one or the other. There's juuust as many shitty western games. The only difference is that japan heavily focuses on RPGs, because that's what the people want, where the west focuses on other shit, like FPS. So when there's a bad japanese game, it's most likely an RPG. Whereas in the west it's spread a bit more evenly.
Americans hate all RPGs. That's why Mass Effect became such a sex-centered shooter. Late x-play show was so american that they hated all games that requiered any brainpower at all. Ok, now it's my happytrigger time with AK and my drunk on vodka bear.
Hah. Well I was focusing more on story and presentation when I said that. Gameplay differences between east and west are just a given.
But when those gameplay differences tend to include a branching story in which one might actually be able to role play vs being told a story about a character wherein you are more or less just along for the ride I am not sure it is handwaved so easily.
I don't consider how the story is told to be gameplay.
Clicking a text box as opposed to watching a scene aren't gameplay differences.
Being able to roleplay is a bit of a joke. If we're talking games like elder scrolls, then sure maybe. Buut I was specifically talking about games like Mass Effect/DA where you're basically a static character who makes a few choices. You can roleplay as them just as well as any jRPG character tbh. Roleplaying isn't a thing in those games.
But the point he's arguing is that story wise the two genres are quite different because WRPGs have branching story paths while JRPGs are decidedly linear.
And the character in Mass Effect and other such games is kinda like half you, half another character. You're supposed to make the decisions you would make, although I feel Mass Effect kinda ruined this with a designed "Good/Neutral/Evil" decision. Dragon Age Origins at least didn't indicate what answer had what affect on morality and even then morality was only what your comrades thought of you, not a bar that goes up and down.
In which your actions in a game change the outcome of the story/segment vs in which your actions unlock the next cutscene of a sort is not a fundamental difference in so many ways? Even just outlining how I would make the game engine in my head would change it in so many ways.
I would have probably argued mass effect is a good example of role playing -- ignoring the knock on stuff for other games I decide and influence the fates of species, multiple characters in my party and outside it, galactic politics and more, such things changing story arcs, items available to me and more besides.
Equally on the unknown hero bit I seem to recall your character is already a military commander of some note (though you pick some of the background there), one a few minutes from being appointed to the galaxy police as the game begins and otherwise with the backing of several quite powerful groups.
I would have probably argued mass effect is a good example of role playing -- ignoring the knock on stuff for other games I decide and influence the fates of species, multiple characters in my party and outside it, galactic politics and more, such things changing story arcs, items available to me and more besides.
Equally on the unknown hero bit I seem to recall your character is already a military commander of some note (though you pick some of the background there), one a few minutes from being appointed to the galaxy police as the game begins and otherwise with the backing of several quite powerful groups.
Was it that bad? I've thought of playing it since I liked every other game that I've played that was made by Camelot (really just the Golden Sun games and the Mario Tennis games on gb and gba), but I've never got around to it.
Interesting question. The most obvious thing is "every forum has at least one whipping boy". The kind of topics that, once brought up, will generate a flood of posts that confirm the general trend ruling on said forum. On gbatemp, the ouya is a decent example (seriously: start any thread about it and you'll easily have multiple pages of people making fun and puns about it).
JRPG's are an easy target for many reasons:
-if you're not into turn based combat or random encounters, their presence can seriously fuck up your experience
-the story is often convoluted, leaves many plotholes and has some pretty weird plot turns at times. If your suspension isn't disbelieved at that time, criticizing one is like shooting fish in a barrel
-same for the characters. Without suspension of disbelief, you're running around with a bunch of twats (in other words: more easy target picking).
-JRPG's have become pretty stale for a long time. Sure, graphics have improved, but what else? I don't play 'em because I personally don't like 'em, and TBH I don't think I've seen ANY proper innovation on that front in about ten years. A friend of mine likes to play Xenoblade Chronicles, but while she's having fun with it, it's clearly nothing that couldn't have been done ten years earlier (save the graphics, obviously...and I'm not even sure about that).
-what's worse: JRPG's USED to be good. If you ask me, the reason why guys like Spoony go on multiple hours on breaking them down is because they think the industry took a wrong turn somewhere and want to point that out (okay, perhaps "no innovation" is a bad choice of words, and should that be "innovation in fields a vocal part of their fans absolutely hate").
And while not a thing per se, I have my personal gripe:
WHAT THE HELL IS A "JRPG" IN THE FREAKIN' FIRST PLACE ???
Extra credits did a nice 3-part episode on it (starting here), and I gotta say it's just a stupid referential that should never have been a thing in the first place. The whole "RPG" is something I get, and is a part of the gameplay. But what is the 'J' doing in that whole thing? Is monster hunter or demon souls a JRPG because they're made in Japan? If the setting is important...is the 'mother' series a JRPG because it plays in the US? Should we call Mario a "JPlatformer", versus the many "Western platformers"? What if a team is part Japanese and part from the West? Are there more JRPG's than final fantasy, and if so...why is everyone always dissing THOSE JRPG's?
In summary: I hate JRPG's because you can't classify them. It's like saying "yeah, I hate all games with a colon in the name". Except you can say that something like that without being a racist.
JRPG's are an easy target for many reasons:
-if you're not into turn based combat or random encounters, their presence can seriously fuck up your experience
-the story is often convoluted, leaves many plotholes and has some pretty weird plot turns at times. If your suspension isn't disbelieved at that time, criticizing one is like shooting fish in a barrel
-same for the characters. Without suspension of disbelief, you're running around with a bunch of twats (in other words: more easy target picking).
-JRPG's have become pretty stale for a long time. Sure, graphics have improved, but what else? I don't play 'em because I personally don't like 'em, and TBH I don't think I've seen ANY proper innovation on that front in about ten years. A friend of mine likes to play Xenoblade Chronicles, but while she's having fun with it, it's clearly nothing that couldn't have been done ten years earlier (save the graphics, obviously...and I'm not even sure about that).
-what's worse: JRPG's USED to be good. If you ask me, the reason why guys like Spoony go on multiple hours on breaking them down is because they think the industry took a wrong turn somewhere and want to point that out (okay, perhaps "no innovation" is a bad choice of words, and should that be "innovation in fields a vocal part of their fans absolutely hate").
And while not a thing per se, I have my personal gripe:
WHAT THE HELL IS A "JRPG" IN THE FREAKIN' FIRST PLACE ???
Extra credits did a nice 3-part episode on it (starting here), and I gotta say it's just a stupid referential that should never have been a thing in the first place. The whole "RPG" is something I get, and is a part of the gameplay. But what is the 'J' doing in that whole thing? Is monster hunter or demon souls a JRPG because they're made in Japan? If the setting is important...is the 'mother' series a JRPG because it plays in the US? Should we call Mario a "JPlatformer", versus the many "Western platformers"? What if a team is part Japanese and part from the West? Are there more JRPG's than final fantasy, and if so...why is everyone always dissing THOSE JRPG's?
In summary: I hate JRPG's because you can't classify them. It's like saying "yeah, I hate all games with a colon in the name". Except you can say that something like that without being a racist.
what are you talking about, people love jrpgs. I guess you could say jrpgs are divisive, and some people are turned off by anime or equate it to pedophilia, but there at least as many people who are clearly gaga over jrpgs, and some of them are seemingly in it for the anime. And considering how many jrpgs have randomly triggered encounters, it makes sense that jrpg fans have no standards whatsoever.
Leaving aside that Xenoblade is usually brought up by many around here as an example of a bad/boring one I have to say the bolded part is fighting words. Now they did get oh so very cookie cutter at some point in the PS2 era, it is where I burned out, but this last go around had some weird and freaky deviations, mostly by introducing active combat which probably masked a lot for me (my usual three being Magna Carta II, Resonance of Fate and Eternal Sonata).
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