Net Neutrality: what it is, and why you should care

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UPDATE: It's been voted for repeal. The FCC took Net Neutrality to a vote, and it was 3-2, in favor of repeal. This doesn't mean overnight upheaval, but things will certainly change, for better or worse, in due time.
If you've been on the internet at all the past week, there's a high chance that you've heard of something called "Net Neutrality", and you've also likely heard that there might be huge changes to your usage of the internet entirely. This post serves as a quick information briefing on what Net Neutrality is, what could happen if it's repealed, and the current events going on regarding it, and just general visibility to let the community in general be informed.

What is this Net Neutrality thing?


The basic definition of network neutrality is simple: all internet traffic is considered and treated equally. It was established just a bit under three years ago, in February 2015. It prevented companies like Comcast Xfinity and AT&T U-verse from speeding up, or slowing down certain sites based upon content. If you remember, back in July 2017, mobile provider Verizon admitted to targeting Netflix traffic, and specifically throttling it, negatively affecting customers' use of Netflix. Going back to 2014, there were also issues with Comcast customers, and, that's right, Netflix users, as connections to Netflix were notoriously slow. Netflix then entered a legal deal with Comcast, in order to have Netflix connections be faster than they previously were. The 2014 incident was pre-net neutrality, and shows that before the law was enacted, certain sites like Netflix were indeed slowed, and had to specifically bargain with large telecommunication monopolies like Comcast to get fair speeds out to their customers.

In April 2017, the chairman of the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), Ajit Pai, revealed that he had plans to repeal net neutrality. It's worth noting that Pai was once the Associate General Counsel of Verizon Communications, an incredibly high up position with an ISP, who we've stated before as having throttled websites in the past.

Pai's statements on the matter included saying such things as "[the government] would be able to stop micromanaging the internet" and that the FCC and internet service providers would simply have to be "transparent about their practices so that consumers can buy a service plan that's best for them". Shortly after, Comcast began vocally supporting these statements, claiming that government regulation of the internet has been harming innovation and investments of Comcast. David Cohen, the company's Chief Diversity Officer, said that "customers would be clearly informed on our practices [...] Comcast maintains that it does and will not block, throttle, or discriminate against lawful content".

Within the movement for repealing net neutrality, also comes with power being given to the Federal Trade Commission. The FTC would then have the ability to legally charge internet service providers that were not made clear to customers.

You may notice, that within any of the claims made by Pai or Comcast, that equal traffic was never made the focus, instead putting emphasis on making sure these monopolies must be clear and transparent about what they do, but never laying down any solid rules about what they need to be transparent about or why. And, of course, if the FTC were to go after AT&T, Comcast, Verizon, Time Warner, or other assorted companies for not being transparent, these legal cases would find themselves taking years to make their way to court, allowing for them to have their way with their customers until a definitive legal ruling. Therein lies the first batch of unease and controversy with the repeal.

In short, net neutrality is a fairly new regulation, which allows for equal traffic between all sites while using the internet. The chairman of the FCC and former higher-up of Verizon wants to repeal it, however. This would allow less government interference with ISPs, but would also allow those ISPs to do what they wish, so long as they're "transparent".

Does repealing Net Neutrality have any benefits?

Spoiler alert: not really

From the inception of the internet, and up until 2015, Americans have gone without net neutrality. Ajit Pai claims that should we not have net neutrality anymore, more rural areas would be able to have more companies and providers, and it would allow for more competition and choice for the consumer. However, these smaller companies would also have to fight it out with established services, with years of experience and infrastructure refinements.

As a side note, I've spent thirty minutes researching a potential "pro" argument. I've not found many that seem reasonable. I've listed in the spoiler tag below arguments from other websites and blogs.

Green Garage Blog: While net neutrality allows for freedom of speech, the downside is that almost anything can be posted to the internet. This means that the cruelest or insensitive information imaginable can end up on the internet, and as a result, it can cause a lot of problems from people that otherwise wouldn’t be prone to being under the microscope of criticism. This means that people can post cruel, intimidating, or other harassing messages and often get away with it thanks to free speech legislation. So it can be a very toxic environment for a lot of people to put up with.

Vittana: Reduced income from internet uses limits infrastructure improvements.
There are certain businesses and high-use individuals who consume large amounts of bandwidth every month. If net neutrality was removed, these high-level consumers would be asked to pay more for what they consume. This added income could then be used to upgrade the infrastructure of each internet service provider, making it possible for advanced fiber networks to be installed in many communities.

AEI: But in many instances, fast lanes, zero-rating, and the like benefit customers. In separate research, both former FCC Chief Economist Michael Katz (with Ben Hermalin) and I (with Janice Hauge) showed that fast lanes benefit small content providers in their attempts to compete with established industry leaders. AEI scholar Roslyn Layton has shown that elderly and low-income consumers benefit from zero-rating services.

Basically, the only benefit would be if America's current economy wasn't dominated by monopolistic ISPs. Below is an interview with Ajit Pai, showing his perspective.


Scrapping these rules, Pai told Reason's Nick Gillespie, won't harm consumers or the public interest because there was no reason for them in the first place. The rationales were mere "phantoms that were conjured up by people who wanted the FCC for political reasons to overregulate the internet," Pai told Gillespie. "We were not living in a digital dystopia in the years leading up to 2015."

If left in place, however, the Title II rules could harm the commercial internet, which Pai described as "one of the most incredible free market innovations in history."

"Companies like Google and Facebook and Netflix became household names precisely because we didn't have the government micromanaging how the internet would operate," said Pai, who noted that the Clinton-era decision not to regulate the Internet like a phone utility or a broadcast network was one of the most important factors in the rise of our new economy.

Pai also pushed back against claims that he's a right-wing radical who's "fucking things up."

"[I ascribe to] the very radical, right-wing position that the Clinton administration basically got it right when it came to digital infrastructure."


What happens if/when this gets repealed, and what does this mean for you?


The worst part of this, is that there's no definitive answer of what WILL happen, only what CAN happen. What has people concerned, though, is the potential things that larger ISPs can do with this new power, should net neutrality be repealed. Internet service providers could slow access to specific sites, and speed up others, in theory, others specifically being sites who pay ISPs for faster access, and those partnered or in contracts with ISPs. Websites like Google, Amazon, Reddit, Etsy, Netflix, and many more have all broadcast their support of net neutrality, stating that without these rules in place thanks to net neutrality, internet providers would become gatekeepers to the internet, restricting what customers can see. Without definitive government restrictions, these companies could be free to split access to the internet into packages, like cable TV, indeed making true on the intention of lowering the cost of internet access, but also making it more difficult and expensive to see all of the internet, as you can right now.

Likely, what will happen, though everything is up in the air, is that certain ISPs will utilize what's called "fast lanes" and "zero rating". Fast lanes are sort of like what we talked about at the start, with Netflix and Comcast. Currently, these fast lanes and zero rating are used with mobile phone data. AT&T customers can watch DirecTV (owned by AT&T) via their mobile data, without it counting towards their monthly cap. These rules could be applied to home internet as well; if you're a Comcast user, and you want to watch Hulu (owned by NBC-Universal-Comcast), maybe your connection to Hulu will be lightning fast, thanks to these theoretical fast lanes, and they won't go towards your Comcast monthly 1 Terabyte home cap. But what if you want to watch Netflix? Either Netflix will have much lower picture quality, or take a longer time to connect to. And if Netflix pays a fee, or gets into a contract once again with Comcast, then that potentially means that Netflix's increased costs move down to the consumer, who also now has to pay more for a service as well.

What can we do?


The only thing left to do is let your voice be heard. Social media has exploded without people decrying the impending repeal of net neutrality, and the negatives that it would entail, to the point of where the majority of Reddit has been plastered with net neutrality posts.

zZOxMA2.png

The FCC will take the repeal to a vote on December 14, 2017. It is highly predicted that the repeal will pass, and net neutrality will come to an end. Millions have taken to the site "battleforthenet" and "callmycongress" to contact their local representatives and congressmen in order to show that American citizens don't want net neutrality destroyed.

You can learn more at the links below. Hopefully this is helpful in describing what net neutrality is, and why it shouldn't be taken away.

:arrow:Techcrunch: These are the arguments against net neutrality and why they're wrong

:arrow: Extra Credits: What a closed internet means

:arrow:Phillip DeFranco: The Internet is under attack

:arrow:Save the internet: What you need to know


:arrow:Ars Technica: RIP net neutrality
 

ThisIsDaAccount

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i wonder how other country will react to this since almost anyone who uses the internet goes on sites based in the us.
The Prime Minister of Canada and the President of France, I believe, responded to the vote when it was announced and expressed concern.

Edit: Macron didn't, Trudeau did
 
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WeedZ

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The Prime Minister of Canada and the President of France, I believe, responded to the vote when it was announced and expressed concern.

Edit: Macron didn't, Trudeau did
I was just reading an article about the statement from the French communications dude. I liked this point

"Another point made by critics of net neutrality is that the internet developed just fine without open-internet protections in place. But it is not fair to argue that because the “internet as we know it” grew with no net neutrality rules, we do not need these rules today. Gutenberg did not benefit from any declaration of rights to invent the printing press. Nevertheless, we codified freedom of speech to keep using it."

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I just had a thought, imagine hosting sites in other countries.

Package options:
Hosting 10/month
Domain 25/year
Unlimited bandwidth 25/month
100gb storage 5/month
Email free
Mysql free
Have your site viewable in the US 99.99/month
 
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ThisIsDaAccount

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[Q
I was just reading an article about the statement from the French communications dude. I liked this point

"Another point made by critics of net neutrality is that the internet developed just fine without open-internet protections in place. But it is not fair to argue that because the “internet as we know it” grew with no net neutrality rules, we do not need these rules today. Gutenberg did not benefit from any declaration of rights to invent the printing press. Nevertheless, we codified freedom of speech to keep using it."

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I just had a thought, imagine hosting sites in other countries.

Package options:
Hosting 10/month
Domain 25/year
Unlimited bandwidth 25/month
100gb storage 5/month
Email free
Mysql free
Have your site viewable in the US 99.99/month
I don't think thatll happen, they'll mostly block on a site by site basis if they do. Still, if your site is a competitor to another bigger site, youll be out of luck in the US.
 

Xzi

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I don't think thatll happen, they'll mostly block on a site by site basis if they do. Still, if your site is a competitor to another bigger site, youll be out of luck in the US.
I wouldn't put it past the big ISPs to wait 2-3 years until everyone's guard is down, and then throttle all but a whitelist of sites, effectively killing them, especially during peak hours. In the beginning, however, I agree. They'll only target a few sites to blacklist that they don't like. Those will be throttled near to death.
 
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WeedZ

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Looking at the world in my time is crazy. When I was a kid it was all about connecting. The internet started becoming a thing, peoples opinions were appreciated, we could go where ever whenever without worry, open trade and commerce between countries, one love and all that shit.. now it's all people hating on each other for political beliefs, the brexit, harsher border patrol and immigration regulations in the us, people being arrested for voicing their opinions and now a loss of net neutrality. I'm fucking disappointed. Seems like there's always some senseless reason to continue to divide and silence us. And there are people that think it's ok..
 

Xzi

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Looking at the world in my time is crazy. When I was a kid it was all about connecting. The internet started becoming a thing, peoples opinions were appreciated, we could go where ever whenever without worry, open trade and commerce between countries, one love and all that shit.. now it's all people hating on each other for political beliefs, the brexit, harsher border patrol and immigration regulations in the us, people being arrested for voicing their opinions and now a loss of net neutrality. I'm fucking disappointed. Seems like there's always some senseless reason to continue to divide and silence us. And there are people that think it's ok..
We went wrong in a lot of places at a lot of different times. Things were better before social media as we know it now...better before 24-hour news channels...before reality TV...before Citizens United and money completely owning politics...before so much else.

Give me back my MTV that's actually music videos DAMMIT! /geezer
 

SG854

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Confirmed for not having read the bill at all.

Explain this for me then.
https://i.imgur.com/cgUA9SY.png
I found flaws

First it says its makes anti competitive arrangements illegal. What if an ISP found away around this by making a "Pro Competitive Arrangements". And Comcast has just done that with Zero Rating Arrangements (aka data cap exemptions). As said by Sena Fitzmaurice the Senior Vice President of Comcast. With Net Neutrality gone they can provide data cap exemptions on certain services and force other companies to pay for those same exemptions. And the FCC can't do anything about that.

Also the FTC could punish them if they go back on their promises/commitments. But there is no law that requires them to make promises/commitments in the first place. And therefore not be punished. They can handle their network however they want as long they disclose information to the public.

ISP's have been doing lots of double speak recently on their commitments, and on the difference between pro competitive and anti competitive arrangements.
With Net Neutrality down they are basically letting ISP's regulate themselves. This is basically voluntary net neutrality. (And we'll see how well this goes.)
 
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WeedZ

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people will probably buy vpns to bypass it though
All a VPN does is hide your ip with those on a server. The slow speeds, data caps, and website blocks will still be intact. If they wanted to, they could block connections for a vpn's range of ip's, blocking it altogether.
 
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Nobody complains about widespread throttling or wholesale blocking of websites right now. You're simply lying because you have no leg to stand on in this argument. These are downsides that come after repeal.

We've been round in circles on this a million times, but the bottom line is that the majority opinion (~80%) was in favor of Net Neutrality, and Ajit Pai completely ignored that. There's no reason to ignore such a massive public outcry unless you're getting some sort of personal benefit, so this entire repeal process has been corrupt from the beginning. That's how you end up being the most hated man on the internet and why it's so easy to find images like this one:

Apparently @MaverickWellington will be his friend, but nobody else is willing to take that hit.
https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/25/16546798/verizon-unlimited-data-full-video-quality-fee
https://www.theverge.com/2016/8/26/...ed-premium-plan-announced-less-throttly-sorta
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...ottling-to-be-punished-with-100-million-fine/
http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/1...identally-deactivates-customers-sims-process/
oops i think i killed your argument haha

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

"B-b-b-b-but Title II s-stopped the throttling! W-what do you mean it's still happening!?"
lmao okay xzi
Evidently you don't trust the government at all but the moment they propose rules you agree with you totally trust them to run your internet despite saying before they were corrupt but okay lad

Cognitive dissonance must hurt. Not that I'd know :^)

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I found flaws

First it says its makes anti competitive arrangements illegal. What if an ISP found away around this by making a "Pro Competitive Arrangements". And Comcast has just done that with Zero Rating Arrangements (aka data cap exemptions). As said by Sena Fitzmaurice the Senior Vice President of Comcast. With Net Neutrality gone they can provide data cap exemptions on certain services and force other companies to pay for those same exemptions. And the FCC can't do anything about that.

Also the FTC could punish them if they go back on their promises/commitments. But there is no law that requires them to make promises/commitments in the first place. And therefore not be punished. They can handle their network however they want as long they disclose information to the public.

ISP's have been doing lots of double speak recently on their commitments, and on the difference between pro competitive and anti competitive arrangements.
With Net Neutrality down they are basically letting ISP's regulate themselves. This is basically voluntary net neutrality. (And we'll see how well this goes.)
upload_2017-12-15_7-17-14.png


Wrong.

Under anti-trust laws these moves would be illegal, regardless of what they call them.
The argument of "they could enforcement but no law says they have to" is a non-argument. You can neglect to press charges in situations where you were wronged if you feel it was an accident, or it has been solved privately and you don't want to push it further. The point of the lack of a law requiring every single event and situation to be punished by law is that it allows for situations and "violations" to be observed on a case by case basis, as they should be, rather than some catch-all thing that means throttling because of infrastructure problems is the exact same thing as throttling to prevent competition.

To clarify, the idea of legitimate violations being ignored is fucking garbage, but we have no evidence to suggest that will be what happens. Why the FCC would accept laws that they intend to ignore and never enforce is beyond me. If they didn't give a shit about the laws, why would they change them?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

so it will cause gbatemp to be very slow and cost more to run the servers?
No. That would only happen if there was a huge surge in bandwidth that'd increase costs. I *sincerely* doubt an ISP would go to a fucking forum and extort them to remove throttling. They don't have a reason to. Name an ISP that's offering a competing forum about game mods and homebrew.
 
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SG854

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Wrong.

Under anti-trust laws these moves would be illegal, regardless of what they call them.
The argument of "they could enforcement but no law says they have to" is a non-argument. You can neglect to press charges in situations where you were wronged if you feel it was an accident, or it has been solved privately and you don't want to push it further. The point of the lack of a law requiring every single event and situation to be punished by law is that it allows for situations and "violations" to be observed on a case by case basis, as they should be, rather than some catch-all thing that means throttling because of infrastructure problems is the exact same thing as throttling to prevent competition.

To clarify, the idea of legitimate violations being ignored is fucking garbage, but we have no evidence to suggest that will be what happens. Why the FCC would accept laws that they intend to ignore and never enforce is beyond me. If they didn't give a shit about the laws, why would they change them?
We have evidence of allowing Data Caps exemptions, and forcing other companies to pay for those same exemptions under this new management from Ajit Pai. The guy is anti net neutrality, this is just a taste of whats going to happen. Under old management from Tom wheeler it was ruled illegal. But new management from Pai let it slide.
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...that-att-and-verizon-violated-net-neutrality/
 
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TotalInsanity4

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If net neutrality stays then i dont want to be blocked from downloading torrents. My phone data should not be slowed down. No blocking vpn and tor network. It ain't truly neutral now is it? If im blocked from a certain streaming site that illegal then that's not neutral. The law will probably be passed since its in the tax law. The real issue is that when a new law is proposed, only things pertaining to that law should be in the bill. There should be no sneaking it in. That should have been in the Constitution. All in all, id rather the government take its dirty hands off my internet. They always fuck up everything they touch. look how expensive health care in the US is now. Don't people know that the Liberal/Progressive agenda is more government control. Look up what FDR started. They hate trump because he is a huge wrench into their view for America. When trump trolls them its great.
 

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If net neutrality stays then i dont want to be blocked from downloading torrents. My phone data should not be slowed down. No blocking vpn and tor network. It ain't truly neutral now is it? If im blocked from a certain streaming site that illegal then that's not neutral. The law will probably be passed since its in the tax law. The real issue is that when a new law is proposed, only things pertaining to that law should be in the bill. There should be no sneaking it in. That should have been in the Constitution. All in all, id rather the government take its dirty hands off my internet. They always fuck up everything they touch. look how expensive health care in the US is now. Don't people know that the Liberal/Progressive agenda is more government control. Look up what FDR started. They hate trump because he is a huge wrench into their view for America. When trump trolls them its great.
I totally agree with you on the whole "sneaking stuff into bills thing", that's actual horseshit

But, uh, what exactly is your issue with FDR?
 

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oops i think i killed your argument haha
No, you sure didn't. You pointed out individual instances of ISPs being dicks, and you think handing over all control to those dicks will solve everything. Your logic is so obviously broken.

In good news, however: states are suggesting they'll be implementing their own Net Neutrality laws one by one. There's still probably a plan in place to strip away those states' rights, but it hasn't started moving yet. Would be pretty funny if only the red states were truly stripped of Net Neutrality and have to reap what they sow. It'd also be satisfying to see all 50 states pass their own NN laws, making the fact that repeal passed irrelevant.
 
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SG854

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He's going to ignore it because arstechnica
I just don't trust management under Pai. Especially with the plan he proposed and is going to take affect.
If he allows this then what. Thats what political heads do, they play with wording a lot to confuse. Masters of Double Speak.
Wording is one thing. How they interpret it is another. Which is we have to see the many different ways a document can be interpreted.
And pick out the finer details.
 
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No, you sure didn't. You pointed out individual instances of ISPs being dicks, and you think handing over all control to those dicks will solve everything. Your logic is so obviously broken.

In good news, however: states are suggesting they'll be implementing their own Net Neutrality laws one by one. There's still probably a plan in place to strip away those states' rights, but it hasn't started moving yet. Would be pretty funny if only the red states were truly stripped of Net Neutrality and have to reap what they sow. It'd also be satisfying to see all 50 states pass their own NN laws, making the fact that repeal passed irrelevant.
"You think handing over all control to them will solve everything"
Where have I ever fucking argued that
 

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"You think handing over all control to them will solve everything"
Where have I ever fucking argued that
Well, if you thought it was going to make things worse, you would've been arguing against NN repeal. So what, you believe ISPs holding all the power will simply change nothing? Sounds naive.
 
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Well, if you thought it was going to make things worse, you would've been arguing against NN repeal. So what, you believe ISPs holding all the power will simply change nothing? Sounds naive.
I swear I would have to literally pay you to make a coherent representation of someone's argument.
When have I ever said that I believed the ISPs should hold all the power? When have I presented anything saying the proposal is to let ISPs have all the power?

This video explain it, since apparently you can't read. Hopefully you can listen better though.


The breakdown is that authority is given to the FTC. How in the fuck does that mean "No regulations on ISPs?"
 
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