Gaming Switch games falling into the 'Switch Tax' category

[leonmagnus99]

oh yeah about this tax stuff, from when i was using my switch (sold it now to a close friend of mine) i had my location set to California, the address etc.

and the thing is, i did not pay more than 59.99$ for my MK8 dluxe/Splatoon2 games.
there was no added tax, and my friend created a new account on the switch i sold him and he told me yesterday that he had to pay 5$ extra to buy zelda botw.

is is state based for this tax charge, or is it based on which games?

 

[Deleted-355425]

But those would be "100% digital games for which you can buy a gift code in stores" (which Nintendo did a handful of times for current gen), not "buy a game card that always worked offline but this one won't run at all without a forced download"!

see the SD bit?

 

[Arras]

oh yeah about this tax stuff, from when i was using my switch (sold it now to a close friend of mine) i had my location set to California, the address etc.

and the thing is, i did not pay more than 59.99$ for my MK8 dluxe/Splatoon2 games.
there was no added tax, and my friend created a new account on the switch i sold him and he told me yesterday that he had to pay 5$ extra to buy zelda botw.

is is state based for this tax charge, or is it based on which games?

"Switch Tax" doesn't refer to real tax, it's just a way of phrasing. Nintendo first party games don't suffer from it because they have higher profit margins/are willing to eat the added cost themselves.

But those would be "100% digital games for which you can buy a gift code in stores" (which Nintendo did a handful of times for current gen), not "buy a game card that always worked offline but this one won't run at all without a forced download"!

I'm not sure, but I think I read the game does run, it's just that 90% of the content isn't available. Sort of like trying to play a game on PS4 that has finished the "early download" or before the install is finished, where you can start it, but you end up in a sandbox environment instead of the full game (although it depends on the game what happens).

 

[Eddypikachu]

Here's some in depth stuff from a developer of L.A. Noire, https://twitter.com/ZhugeEX/status/906053345206566912 Read the whole thread pls

Basically cart cost + platform fee + packaging cost is 60% more with a 32 GB cart than with a 50GB Blu-Ray. The cart needs to be 8GB only to equal costs of 50GB Blu-Ray on other platforms

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

 

[DeslotlCL]

Here's some in depth stuff from a developer of L.A. Noire, https://twitter.com/ZhugeEX/status/906053345206566912 Read the whole thread pls

Basically cart cost + platform fee + packaging cost is 60% more with a 32 GB cart than with a 50GB Blu-Ray. The cart needs to be 8GB only to equal costs of 50GB Blu-Ray on other platforms

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

So the switch will get the inferior version and not even the full game on the cartridge.

Heh, screw third party support on switch.

 

[Xzi]

If I cared much for LA Noire, the definitive version would be Switch because you'd have it on a portable. You could already play it with high-end graphics and frame rates when it first released on PC. Even the Vive version of the game doesn't interest me enough to get it at launch, though. The game is just 'meh,' especially in the face of the rest of Rockstar's catalog. Give me GTA5 Switch or RDR or Max Payne, then I'll care. Any of this is definitely doable remembering that GTA5 ran on the garbage hardware that was Xbox 360.

Even $40 is asking way too much for LA Noire this many years after release. I think I got it for like $10. This whole re-release is just a cash grab by Rockstar, but I guess if you like the game enough to play through it and pay near full price for it again, more power to ya.

 

[jefffisher]

i'd honestly be cool with game cards being nothing more than keys needed to play downloaded games, it's all about collectibility and resale value for me.
ps4 and xbox one games physical games already require storage space some of them an insane amount.
yeah it's kinda different because HDD vs microSD but it is what it is.

 

[DeslotlCL]

i'd honestly be cool with game cards being nothing more than keys needed to play downloaded games, it's all about collectibility and resale value for me.
ps4 and xbox one games physical games already require storage space some of them an insane amount.
yeah it's kinda different because HDD vs microSD but it is what it is.

It's kinda different because discs drives read speeds are horrendous for those big games, hence why they need to be installed... cartridges on the hand have far better read speeds and they should be plug and play, but no... discs are justified, cartridges not...in that case they would have used mini discs again and let the full game install to the external storage, because what's the point on cartridges now?

 

[HaloEliteLegend]

This could end up becoming a bigger problem. Remember back to the PS1/PS2 era when companies flocked to PlayStation because the discs could hold a lot more data than the carts/small discs Nintendo used? It would be really ironic if that same issue was resurrected in the modern day, where the larger titles can't fit onto Nintendo's storage solution and therefore just skip the console. Think of it from a publisher's perspective: They have a big game that, if released on the Switch, will require either a price hike on the physical cart or the user to have a microSD card. Those two factors will naturally lead to decreased sales for the game, because people might buy on other platforms due to price or might not have the necessary microSD. Add to that the Switch already having a smaller install base, and add to that the optimization time required to make a high-end game work well on Switch, and suddenly a Switch port becomes a much more harrowing prospect.

I think if I were Nintendo, I would try finding higher-capacity storage carts and perhaps absorbing some or all of the cost for higher-capacity carts in order to better persuade publishers and developers to port their games to Switch. Of course, I'm no sales expert and I don't work for Ninty so I don't know the situation any more than you all do. What do you all think? Could this be a disastrous problem later than sees games skipping the console as a result?

 

[Sonic Angel Knight]

I suppose i should understand devs wanting games on the system, but maybe consider the game doesn't have to be on the system? Maybe make a new game that requires less? I dunno much about the cost of stuff but when i see "this will cost more here than here" i expect more effort into it and not the same thing. If for some reason for example, tekken tag tournament 2 on the 3 consoles, On ps3 and xbox 360 is $40 but wii u is $60, I expect more content on the $60 game, not that "cause is on nintendo" But what else? Does nintendo make me play the game better here? Yes i know the game has nintendo exclusive costumes, it also has some mini games like the volley ball and the mushroom battle, sure i understand the price increase, but not increase price when the game is exactly the same.

Azure striker gunvolt striker pack on 3DS is $30, published by yacht club games. On nintendo switch is $40 published by Nighthawk entertainment (or whatever) But the $10 difference is noted. All previously released DLC included, HD screen, High resolution pictures and text, Redesigned HUD screen for easier reading, multiple language options, 60FPS GAMEPLAY and HD rumble, rebalanced gameplay and stage tweaks to adjust difficulty and exclusive new song. $10 more for a lot more effort into making the game worth buying again even if you already owned the 3ds game, and not like that puyo tetris where is $30 on eshop but $40 retail just to include 2 keychains to compensate for buying the game card. Both game file sizes aren't that big anyway, is less than 3GB.

If people start doing what sega did with puyo puyo tetris, then expect a lot more of it to happen. Honestly i feel download digital games should be cheaper than retail game, people can continue to buy the retail game if they wanna spend the extra money or download the game for a discount.

 

[anhminh]

I don't see problem with extra download content. Everyone have wifi there days unless you live in some third world country or something and the download is one time deal, it not like you have to download them every times you play or something.

With leaving extra data on the sdcard game can be much bigger and don't add up in the price thus encourage third party to port over current gen game. And before you said it diminish the point of having physic card, no it didn't. With the main game on the cart you won't need to download the whole game on your sdcard which take a lots of space so you can bring more game with you instead of buying expensive sd card which could only hold few game at best.

 

[Xzi]

It's kinda different because discs drives read speeds are horrendous for those big games, hence why they need to be installed... cartridges on the hand have far better read speeds and they should be plug and play, but no... discs are justified, cartridges not...in that case they would have used mini discs again and let the full game install to the external storage, because what's the point on cartridges now?

The point is still faster read times, but the trade-off is that larger cartridge sizes cost a lot more to mass produce than discs. It's not like a disc drive was an option with Switch's form factor anyway.

 

[smf]

It would be really ironic if that same issue was resurrected in the modern day, where the larger titles can't fit onto Nintendo's storage solution and therefore just skip the console.

That isn't particularly ironic. PlayStation was easier to create games on than N64 or Saturn & the PlayStation sold more due to cost. The switch isn't a direct competitor to xbox one or ps4 as neither of those can be played on the move.

Third party developers will produce games if they think they can make money, even if that means producing a cut down version for the switch. When it doesn't pay off then they'll stop.

 

[Bladexdsl]

nintendo is going to regret using carts

 

[deinonychus71]

Will the digital version cost 10 more as well though?

Cause i only get my games digital and would hate for this stupid tax to be reported where it doesnt make sense.

 

[Xzi]

nintendo is going to regret using carts

No they won't lol. No you're right, they should've fit an HDD and a Blu-Ray drive in there.

 

[Deleted-355425]

Should of used the UMD format

 

[Tigran]

nintendo is going to regret using carts

Well WTF did you expect them to use?

 

[isoboy]

I emailed them for a refund of rabbids. Partly because I want to see if it goes through without a hitch and I also would like to start buying the bigger games in physical format.

 

[FAST6191]

This could end up becoming a bigger problem. Remember back to the PS1/PS2 era when companies flocked to PlayStation because the discs could hold a lot more data than the carts/small discs Nintendo used? It would be really ironic if that same issue was resurrected in the modern day, where the larger titles can't fit onto Nintendo's storage solution and therefore just skip the console.

They flocked to the playstation because Sony offered a really good deal and allowed devs to mostly be devs (as opposed to 8 and 16 bit era Nintendo which was controlling as you like). I would also look and see what the relative differences are -- 650/700 megs of CD vs considerably less ROM on a N64 cart did represent something truly notable, especially when the video and CD audio that was the rage at the time would have to be uncompressed or nearly so -- PS1 is not going to play back H264 video after all. Game sizes on modern devices have kind of stagnated a bit; most of the PS4 games I play are not that far off what the PS3 and 360 had, especially PS3 as the dual layer DVD of the 360 was tested towards the end there, and could probably be forced down more if needs be (disc read speeds are not the worst and you have a hard drive to install things to so why bother really compressing your textures and motion video).

Doubtless it will come down to margins, as usual I can't seem to get prices on ROM programming so I will have to sub in NAND
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/For...grammed-NAND-flash-memory-IC/32784975032.html
32 gigabytes for an LG phone (apple stuff is also on the site but apple tax and all that) $12.50 a piece.
Right now according to the vendor spam in my inbox a 45 meg a second 32 gig microSD can be had for £12.99
$9 USD (call it £5) for 16 gig iphone intended flash chips https://www.aliexpress.com/item/16G...-chip-For-iPhone-6S-PLUS-5-5/32813103445.html

https://www.edithouse.co.uk/ reckons about £1.29 for a 25gig blu ray if you get 2000 (I will assume that the case and whatnot will get to around that when you get the runs of tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, for games -- looking at http://www.vgchartz.com/weekly/42939/Europe/ I don't know if you would do new pressings every so often rather than stumping up for it.)

It is enough that I can see margins troubled but it could be workable.