Hacking [Translation] Shining Blade

[cyberakuma]

Just some notes on the names:

• Kaito has official kanji for his name, so it should remain Kaito, rather than Kite. It's also recognized as Kaito on
  http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/video-games/Shining-Blade/
  
• Amil/Amyl doesn't appear to come from Norse mythology but is listed as Amil on the site. Amyl isn't necessarily wrong.
• Fafnir and Baldr are names from Norse mythology.
  Fafner isn't a valid spelling for Fafnir, but the katakana is ファフナー rather than ファフニール, so I can understand using Fafner instead.
  Baldr on the other hand uses バルドル, which is consistent with the actual katakana for Baldr, the Norse god's name. Balder is an uncommon spelling and is not recognizable to the extend that Baldr or Baldur are. I'd say let them use Baldr or Baldur rather than Balder, though it is listed as Balder on that site.
• As for Aira, there is a river in England called Aira. Its name comes from Old Norse, so Aira would be the correct spelling. It's also listed as Aira on that site.
• Jin-Crow is the recognized spelling of his name in English, specifically in places listing his voice actor:
  http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/characters/Shining/Jin-Crow/

I disagree. Amyl is just plain wrong. There is no evidence to support this version, whereas Amil on the other hand, had appear so on various sources, including the in-game loading screen, various merchandises, and if I'm not mistaken, the Shining Hearts artbook as well.

You are mistaken. Amyl is wrong.

Jinkurou is spelt in the way his name from Kanji is directly pronounced. 刃九郎 is his name in Kanji. Therefore Jinkurou is correct. It's the same as Reiji and Rage are both correct.

Oh, one more thing I forgot. Alberich comes from norse mythology as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberich

 

[Test Track]

Kinda late to the party, but I'm glad to see that we're finally getting work on a translation patch for this game. Many thanks to you wonderful folks working on this!

Also, a shout out to cyberakuma/mechgouki for the original translation work on much of the script! Your extensive translation was what pushed me to import the game way back ago, so I'd like to thank you for that as well!

 

[AttackOtter]

I disagree. Amyl is just plain wrong. There is no evidence to support this version, whereas Amil on the other hand, had appear so on various sources, including the in-game loading screen, various merchandises, and if I'm not mistaken, the Shining Hearts artbook as well.

You are mistaken. Amyl is wrong.

Jinkurou is spelt in the way his name from Kanji is directly pronounced. 刃九郎 is his name in Kanji. Therefore Jinkurou is correct. It's the same as Reiji and Rage are both correct.

Oh, one more thing I forgot. Alberich comes from norse mythology as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberich

Amyl still isn't wrong. Amyl itself comes from chemistry terminology.

Just because the JP side hasn't used it doesn't make it an incorrect romanization. You're religiously following JP romanization despite the fact that they misspelled Dylan and have very little consistency in how they romanize names.

You're kinda pretentious.

 

[cyberakuma]

Amyl still isn't wrong. Amyl itself comes from chemistry terminology.

Just because the JP side hasn't used it doesn't make it an incorrect romanization. You're religiously following JP romanization despite the fact that they misspelled Dylan and have very little consistency in how they romanize names.

You're kinda pretentious.

Oh, so Amyl is from chemistry terminology. That's good to know. Remind me again, this is related to the game how exactly?

You are still wrong.

The plain simple fact is that the games used Dylan AND Dyran, therefore both are correct. Why should Dyran be wrong, when it is clearly spelt so in-game? Can you justify why Dyran is wrong?

I don't religiously follow romanisation of katakana, because even the official sources can get them wrong, or inconsistent. However, I choose to religiously refute the universal truths spoken by laymen who obviously have very little knowledge of Japanese, and possibly even less experience of the game itself.

I keep saying this. Amil is the spelling listed in the in-game loading screen, the licensed figures, and even in the official artbooks. If you have seen Amyl spelt in such a fashion in any official source, please, by all means, show it to us!

This is precisely the reason why I made it very clear that there will be no name arguments on my blog. Because we can argue for 2 lifetimes and still not reach an agreement.

I made it very clear. If you don't like my names, feel free to use someone else's translation. I tell everyone the same thing: don't expect me to change my names based on your personal likes and dislikes.

I tried to keep an open mind. But every single time, I keep getting this. "I have no official evidence. But you are wrong, and I am correct. So there."

I have no intention of carrying another lengthy debate. You do not have to use my translations. But if you do, don't tell me what is right or wrong.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Kinda late to the party, but I'm glad to see that we're finally getting work on a translation patch for this game. Many thanks to you wonderful folks working on this!

Also, a shout out to cyberakuma/mechgouki for the original translation work on much of the script! Your extensive translation was what pushed me to import the game way back ago, so I'd like to thank you for that as well!

Thanks, I'm glad you like it. Also check out the song translation (by nijichou) if you can spare the time.

 

[neoxephon]

I have no intention of carrying another lengthy debate. You do not have to use my translations. But if you do, don't tell me what is right or wrong.

Ummm, I think there is some confusion going on here. There are currently only three people that are actually on the team. Myself, sephurchin, and gorzerger. As I said before, I plan to discuss with the team about what we want to do for the script. Nothing about the script has been decided yet, because there is still work to be done on much of the rest of the game. None of the team members have been telling you what is "right or wrong". And we have no control over what other forum members choose to discuss. This is a forum, as in a place that people discuss things. If you don't want to talk about the names, the best bet is to not keep talking about the names. If things keep escalating, the mods will probably swoop in and I'd rather not have this thread potentially closed. If the team decides to use your work, then we will use your name choices.

 

[cyberakuma]

Neoxephon, thank you for the clarification. I will review the names listed by Gorzerger again.

 

[chevkraken]

By "official", do you actually mean from fansubbers?

nope, really official. the Shinng hearts and Shining Tears X Wind have been licensied in west and released in DVD/bluray. Shining hearts in US and Shining tears X wind in france

Just some notes on the names:

• Kaito has official kanji for his name, so it should remain Kaito, rather than Kite. It's also recognized as Kaito on
  http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/video-games/Shining-Blade/
  
• Amil/Amyl doesn't appear to come from Norse mythology but is listed as Amil on the site. Amyl isn't necessarily wrong.
• Fafnir and Baldr are names from Norse mythology.
  Fafner isn't a valid spelling for Fafnir, but the katakana is ファフナー rather than ファフニール, so I can understand using Fafner instead.
  Baldr on the other hand uses バルドル, which is consistent with the actual katakana for Baldr, the Norse god's name. Balder is an uncommon spelling and is not recognizable to the extend that Baldr or Baldur are. I'd say let them use Baldr or Baldur rather than Balder, though it is listed as Balder on that site.

Amil and Dylan are the official Translation in Shining Hearts Bluray.
Balder is used really often(even in marvel comics) and actually, Balder is really common, as much or ven more than Baldur (Baldr being the more commun). Balder is also the official term used in every japanese product using baldr.
Actually, I'll stick to Balder.
Fafnir is used as Fafner in Wagner, I think the staff choose fafner because of that

 

[cyberakuma]

Gorzerger's list.

レイジ Rage OR Reiji
アイン Ein
アミル・マナフレア Amil
(Amil is the official spelling, please use it. Also note that for the Hearts characters, none of their first names were ever referenced in-game, as far as I know.)
ネリス・フィリアム Neris
エアリィ・アーデット Airy
リック エルウッド Rick
ユキヒメ Yukihime
アルティナ Altina
エルミナ Elmina
ミスティ Misty
トウカ Touka
ローゼリンデ Roselinde
フェンリル Fenrir
リンリン Rinrin
剛龍鬼（ごうりゅうき） Gouryuuki
龍那（リュウナ） Ryuuna
ケルベロス Kerberos
アイラ Aira
(Aira is the official spelling, please use it.)
カノン Kanon
クララクラン Clalaclan
ファフナー Fafnir /Fafner
カイト Kaito
(Kiriya's name was never spelt as Kite in any official source, and this name is based on his Kanji name. Please use Kaito, do not use Kite)
ラナ Ranah
ガデム Gadem
刃九郎 Jin-Crow OR Jinkurou
(Again, both are correct.)
ディラン Dylan OR Dyran
(Both are correct, as both have official sources.)
イサリ Isari
バルドル Baldr / Balder / Baldur
スレイプニル Sleipnir
アルベリッヒ Alberich
(Alberich comes from Norse mythology.)
スルト Surt OR Surtr

Baldur was actually my first choice. After Sie Kensou on Gamefaqs informed me that the official website spelt his name as Balder, I decided to stick to that.

After considering what Zander said, it will probably be best to have it more consistent with the Norse mythology name.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

nope, really official. the Shinng hearts and Shining Tears X Wind have been licensied in west and released in DVD/bluray. Shining hearts in US and Shining tears X wind in france

Amil is the official Translation in Shining Hearts Bluray and Balder is used really often(even in marvel comics)

I see, thanks.

Official sources are often accurate, but sometimes it is best to trust ourselves.

In one example, Elwing's name is officially translated as Elwyn in the US version. This is despite many of the other officially licensed products, including artbooks, list her name specifically as Elwing. (My honest opinion, Elwyn is closer to the katakana pronunciation. No "g" sound.)

Baldur was actually my first choice. After Sie Kensou on Gamefaqs informed me that the official website spelt his name as Balder, I decided to stick to that.

After considering what Zander said, it will probably be best to have it more consistent with the Norse mythology name. Since Baldr, Balder, and Baldur are all correct, any of them is fine.

 

[chevkraken]

I see, thanks.

Official sources are often accurate, but sometimes it is best to trust ourselves.

In one example, Elwing's name is officially translated as Elwyn in the US version. This is despite many of the other officially licensed products, including artbooks, list her name specifically as Elwing. (My honest opinion, Elwyn is closer to the katakana pronunciation. No "g" sound.)

Baldur was actually my first choice. After Sie Kensou on Gamefaqs informed me that the official website spelt his name as Balder, I decided to stick to that.

After considering what Zander said, it will probably be best to have it more consistent with the Norse mythology name. Since Baldr, Balder, and Baldur are all correct, any of them is fine.

In french DVD, the translator chose Elwing, but I understand what you mean.

Same for the name of Baldr (more than baldur, the voice actors don't say Baldur), I can understand this choice to correct some name from the game japanese version due to low knowledge of the wrter in japanese. As I said, the original Shining Tears game already made some mistake (and the translation of the game keep them because they didn't correct it and I was disapointed as it was direct reference to Shining force).

the character name also changed between game. even in japanese wersion, Elwing was named Elwyn in Shining Tears, but her name was changed to Elwing in Wind.

And the official spelled version of Aira full name in Blade is Aira Blanc Neige Galdinius but by reading, it would be more Aira Blanc Neige Gardenias(or Gardinias) and As I said, it's alreading and incoorect translation from the original writer who made an error. Tsuyoshi Sawada(the producer of the serie since 2002) said in 2004 when the game was just released her name was Aira Blanc Neige Gardiana and the characte as the characterr was a reference to Anri from Shining force (And Shildia is Shieldia in fact the name is a refrence to Shield as Guardiana to Guardian)

 

[Test Track]

Thanks, I'm glad you like it. Also check out the song translation (by nijichou) if you can spare the time.

I actually saw it posted on your blog way back ago, and it was great. Very thorough translation with helpful accompanying reference notes. I hope nijichou's been doing well.


I have to say, I was a tad worried for a second, but I'm glad the mood was able to cool down here. This has been really informative about how tough it tends to be at times to decide on name romanizations early on for fan translations, since there can be a whole ton of possible conflicting influences to suggest one romanization or another.

Going along with the direction of the current discussion and what chevkraken has pointed out, I feel that it might help to make sure that the name choices made are consistent. For example, if you decide to use "Rage" (provided that there isn't a number of official material that suggests it should be "Reiji" because of his background or something), then it would make sense to stick with "Jin-Crow", "Dylan", and "Surtr" for their respective names since you'd probably be aiming for supposed original creator's intent (like possible mythological/Shining series references) rather than aiming to preserve the JP pronunciation of the name.

Going back to that earlier point about Rage's name: Kiriya's name should probably be Kaito, as cyberakuma says, because it's supposed to be his actual human world JP name (since his surname is Kiriya and nothing suggests any part of his name should be an off-hand reference to something).

And also:

Spoiler

It's been way too long since I've last played the game, but Rage isn't from the same world that Kiriya and the other Earth characters are from, right? Just checking.

Please don't mind my observations/suggestions if they happen to be bothersome, haha.

 

[cyberakuma]

Reiji is Kanon's younger brother. He is from modern Japan of course. His real name is Reiji Shiina. I can't remember what his name in Kanji is. Or if I've even seen it. Maybe I need to check the artbook again. If I can still find it...

 

[Test Track]

Oh jeez, I'm forgetting so many details about the game now, haha. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Spoiler

My brain should have registered the red hair connection as a memory trigger. welp

I actually have the artbook too, but likewise, I'm at a loss as to where I even put it...

Also, I remembered that Udon Entertainment put out a localized version of the Shining Blade/Ark artbook as well, which might be helpful for reference, perhaps.

 

[cyberakuma]

I'm not a big fan of Udon because of the Bison/Balrog/Vega thing. Gouki/akuma too. Players of street fighter Japan series will understand what I mean.

Did I mention that those guys couldn't tell the difference between Hadouken and Kamehameha?

Anyway. Wouldn't be my first choice for an official reference. Just saying.

 

[gamecaptor]

All these fan translations lately make me so happy on the inside! Keep up the great work. We're looking forward to playing it "when it's done"!

 

[Test Track]

I'm not a big fan of Udon because of the Bison/Balrog/Vega thing. Gouki/akuma too. Players of street fighter Japan series will understand what I mean.

Did I mention that those guys couldn't tell the difference between Hadouken and Kamehameha?

Anyway. Wouldn't be my first choice for an official reference. Just saying.

The switched-up names is Capcom's Capcpom's fault (like most other things they mess up i.e. Resident Evil "Revelaiton", lol). At this point, they should just include "Dictator/Boxer/Claw" in parentheses right next to the respective names, haha.

Did they actually use Kamehameha in one of the SF artbooks though? That sounds ridiculous, lol.

In any case, if I happen to see the localized artbook at my nearby bookstore, I might check if the Kanji is included as well as the name romanizations they chose.

Also, I just check the manual for my game, and Reiji's name is not shown with the Kanji either. Just katakana.

 

[amc9988]

Well good uck guys!

 

[Test Track]

Update on the whole Rage/Reiji thing! I found my Shining Blade & Ark artbook and it turns out that they did include the kanji for his name on his page, as seen in the images in the spoiler boxes below:

Spoiler

If you can't see the text in the images, the kanji for his name is 椎名零司.

I've also included images of his sister Kanon's name on her page as well for reference.

Spoiler

There's also this:

Spoiler

...Anyways, I hope this is of use to you folks for figuring out how to romanize the names for the translation. Good luck!

 

[cyberakuma]

Nice one! In the shining world 2 artbook, they spelt his name as Seena Rage though. >_<

WTF? Slut again? Okay that's it! His official name is Slut! Settled! Lol.

 

[AttackOtter]

Hah I hope they don't use Slut. That is a very bad romanization.

If anything it should be Sult if they want to be similar to the "canon" romanization.

This is why I never trust Japanese romanizations for Foreign sounding names. You end up with things like Slut.

 

[BlackDog61]

Hah I hope they don't use Slut. That is a very bad romanization.

If anything it should be Sult if they want to be similar to the "canon" romanization.

This is why I never trust Japanese romanizations for Foreign sounding names. You end up with things like Slut.

If you're going to suggest something to be away from Slut, then why not "Sulto"? Sult is easy to mis-read as Slut.